https://open.spotify.com/episode/6C7b6Xb5EIf58EaAfJ94RA?si=i8y1wGxSQtW7zjPA7OYKrw&dl_branch=1
請參考Andrew的文章
https://www.notion.so/presentality/f5e9453821ed4b4f86df02d6400bfd0d